FEAR FACTORY (Dino Cazares) Interview

January 16th, 2013 by Yiannis

Dino Cazares is a man who needs no introductions. When not blasting riffs through projects of true extreme quality such as Brujeria and Divine Heresy, he is responsible for all those killer riffs and flamboyant melodies that have made Industrial Metallers Fear Factory one of the most innovative and genre-defining bands in Metal. Months after the release of their latest studio album “Industrialist”, these Los Angeles noisemakers are still touring in promotion of their tunes. Only an hour or so before the band hit the stage of Koko for a powerful and enjoyable show I took the opportunity of asking Dino a few important questions involving the band’s current status as well as that of the music industry.

By Yiannis (John) Stefanis

Dino, it is I nice to finally meet you in person. Let me start by thanking you for taking the time to do this interview with us. It is a great pleasure to have you guys back here in the UK.

Dino: Thank you, thank you man. It is unfortunate that we haven’t been able to make it to Greece (note: prior to the interview I had a short chat with Dino during which I revealed my background) this time round. Two years ago we were there and the show we did was amazing but unfortunately you guys now face many financial problems and there was no promoter that could afford to pay for us to play there again. Hopefully someday I will get to go there again.

Well, we all hope that the financial situation of my country will improve so things get back to normal, not just a Fear Factory show…anyway. Here you are back in the UK promoting your latest album “Industrialist”, an album which I find to be quite impressive indeed. What I found, much to my annoyance, is that once again people who are interested in Fear Factory have split between two camps. In one you have people who really like it, and they are quite vocal indeed, and in the other you have those people who simply look for any excuse to complain about things, regardless of how unreasonable or unfounded their arguments could be.

Dino: It is funny indeed that the people who are complaining about something got this album for free…I don’t get it! It almost seems like people don’t really …(Dino sighs)… like music anymore as everybody seems to want to complain about something so much. That’s one of the bad things about the Internet – it gives everybody a voice! Sometimes you don’t want to read everybody’s opinion because sometimes it is so negative, you know what I mean? But, in all fairness, that does come with the territory. Every record that you put out you will always get somebody that doesn’t like it so you have to come to the realisation that you can’t please everybody. Even some of our best records like “Obsolete” (1998) which, to me, is the biggest record that we ever put out worldwide with gold records everywhere, was an album that journalists didn’t like either. It went over a lot of people’s heads, the concept – the journalists in the UK slagged it off by giving it a three out of five. So, we’ve kind of always been…slagged, you know what I mean (laughs)? From day one when “Soul Of A New Machine” (1992) came out people did not understand those melodic vocals and those heavy industrial riffs we made. No one has ever heard that before so no one knew what to think about it and so they talked sh*t about it. It wasn’t until “Demanufacture” (1995) and a few years after “Soul Of A New Machine” had already aged that people started to get used to it. When “Demanufacture” came out we happened to hit it home by solidifying our sound and style and that’s when people finally ‘got it’. When “Obsolete” came out, it was more of an epic album and more of a conceptual album and so people didn’t really get that right away, even though it was our biggest selling record.

I personally think that this is a problem that you should expect to have throughout your career. I don’t know how many more albums you plan on releasing, which I hope will be many, but you are one of those bands that push boundaries and often pay a price for doing so.

Dino: Of course. It goes with the territory, you know what I mean, but I don’t know if…I mean, I do think that there are people who believe those reviews and they get into that ‘thing’ that often becomes a trend to talk sh*t about a band but, for us, we’ve always had it. We’ve always got slagged for things we did but you always have to take it and move on and keep doing what you are doing. Obviously shows like this, where a lot of people have come to see us, say to me that not everyone reads those reviews after all, or believes them!

I sympathise with what you say but, on the other hand, and I am not defending anyone who intentionally talks badly about your bands, music is something you either relate to or not and that often is subject to timing amongst other things. Sometimes people are not quite tuned in to the right ‘frequency’ of one’s music but that doesn’t mean that they will not get it in the future.

Dino: True…sometimes records grow on people – I agree with you on that…but “Obsolete” was the biggest and fastest selling record that we ever put out and it was among the ones that were most slagged!

How was it possible for that album to reach gold status in so many countries and…

Dino: Because the fans didn’t listen to what the journalists said (laughs). A lot of the journalists back in the mid-90s, before there were MP3 files or illegal downloads, a lot of them were getting free CDs from bands every single day! They had tons of free CDs on their desks and they had to listen to all of them and so eventually they got tired of it. So, the new Fear Factory comes to them and they are going “Aaargh!”. It must have been the case of one hating his job.

Well, you are in a position of strength as you are currently touring in promotion of “Industrialist” and you have the ability to see first-hand how people react to the new material.

Dino: Yeah, and so far on this tour the reaction has been great. Trust me, we have been touring for this record since March and the record came out in June, so we were on the road playing new songs months before the record came out.

Dino, when you record a song, it works within certain parameters, so to speak. When you play that same song in a live environment, do you find that there are points where that same material finds different avenues of expression, acquiring a new character as a result of you perhaps trying new things while performing it?

Dino: Well, a lot of times when we write music we do so thinking how it should sound in a live environment and whether people will like it when performed live but different people react to our songs differently. Like, if you play “Demanufacture” you will see a big circle pit forming but when you play “Resurrection” there is no pit but everybody will be singing the lyrics to it as it is a big and epic song. So yes, you see different reactions for different songs. Now, just because there is not a slam for “Resurrection” that doesn’t mean that people don’t like it.

Excellent point indeed. Now, you have been on tour with Devin Townsend and he is quite a character and the audio ‘evidence’ that can be found on the Internet suggests that you guys jelled quite well! (I laugh).

Dino: Well, both bands got a long pretty well as we tended to occupy the same bus – something like seventeen people which is a lot of people! We had a lot of down time to do a lot of stupid stuff and that was one of them; we decided to do that…well, actually it was one of our drum techs who came up with the idea. So we all recorded farts with our phones and then (laughs) Devin was like “maybe we can make a song out of that” and so he did and it was hilarious.

Earlier you said that Devin puts on an act; what exactly did you mean by that? Is he not like that outside the show?

Dino: No, that is not how he is in his everyday life. When he gets on stage he is very mellow.

So he is far worse when he is not on stage (I laugh). Don’t answer that…

Dino: He is just a really nice guy but he is mellow and then when he has to go on stage he is ‘the performer’.

Ok, back to the “Industrialist” now. There are many things I like about the album. Apart from the production, which is very powerful indeed, there is a great mix involved as every instrument is allowed to ‘breathe’ naturally. You opted for a drum machine when recording the album. That being the case why did you choose to have a drummer with you for this tour rather than using samples?

Dino: I thought that this would be great. We talked about that but we didn’t think that the fans would really like that…I don’t know – we haven’t tested it yet.

You have obviously thought about it so how exactly have you visualised it?

Dino: Laptop (laughs). Just press play.

That would perhaps leave more space for props and stuff which would add to one’s visual experience.

Dino: Good idea: visuals! Possibly, yeah, but I think that people have identified Fear Factory with a live drummer; maybe not in the recording process, but definitely live-wise and that is why we kept a drummer but who knows – maybe things will be different in the future.

People who have been following your career quite early on would agree that there are many more formulae to be used for the recording process of a Fear Factory album. I remember thinking to myself while listening to the “Industrialist” that you guys could easily work on movie scores or even musicals. We could have Fear Factory recording music for a futuristic style movie using some of the themes already present in your current albums.

Dino: I think that once I decide that I don’t want to tour anymore that is when I will do something like that.

Do you think that you could indulge in such a concept on a personal level or through Fear Factory?

Dino: It could be both.

That would be quite interesting indeed. I wonder then what people whose reviews were saying things like “these guys play the same thing over and over again” would say about something like this.

Dino: It is the same like saying that AC/DC are always playing the same thing or that Iron Maiden are always playing the same thing or Slayer or Metallica. I mean if you like the band and how they sound then what is the problem? Then, when I do something different you are going to slag me for doing exactly that? Look at it this way; thousands of people are coming to our shows – I am happy!

Let us talk about the video you guys did for the “Industrialist” which is very cleverly crafted. This combination between a film-style story line and live video shots worked really well and so I must praise James (note: Zahn – producer) for a job well done.

Dino: Yeah, James Zahn is a genius of such graphics you know? We found him through a friend of mine and the guy was working, at the time, on a video mini movie type of project which I saw and which I thought was really cool so I thought that we should use him for the introduction to the “Industrialist”. I don’t know if you remember, there was something like a forty second clip of in the beginning and people just loved it and so we decided to have him finish the whole thing. That is basically his vision of what he saw in our music and we loved it. We will probably have him do some more but I think that this time it will be a little bit more detailed.

While watching the video there was one thing on my mind. With music like yours, where the ‘mighty riff’ dictates what goes on, you inevitably have again to experience a form of ‘schism’ in your fan base. You will have those people who are attracted solely by the power of the music and not the subject matter and those for whom the subject matter is equally important. When, as a band, you have put so much effort in order to find the right medium to convey your message to the fans do you feel frustrated or even angry at people who do not experience your music as deeply as it really deserves?

Dino: No, I do not get offended because I believe that everybody is going to get something different out of it, you know what I mean? Some fans might be blind and cannot see our videos but they might like the way our music sounds! Also you have people who just download our stuff and who will not really know our lyrics but they really know our music – all these people come to our shows. Everybody is going to get something different out of it and as long as they like it then I am OK with that. A drummer, for instance, will hear our albums differently than a guitar player as he will undoubtedly pay more emphasis on his instrument while a guitar player will be checking out our riffs…everybody listens to the same thing differently, you know?

With illegal downloading ever so prominent do you think that even a band as established as Fear Factory feels the ‘heat’ or are you, as a result of your history and achievements, operating from a ‘safe zone’, so to speak?

Dino: Obviously we all know that CDs have become obsolete (note: pun intended?) and we have been singing about that stuff for years, about how technology has become a big part of our daily lives – whether it’s good or bad. All it is, is that CDs become obsolete and so you’ve got a new way of getting access to music and that is to download – whether you download something for free or not, it is what it is. We are not going to be able to change that but even when people are illegally downloading my music, as long as they buy a ticket to our shows or a T-shirt from the merchandise stand…well, what can I do – nothing! It is something that we expect to happen.

I am not sure whether it is as a result of me being an 80s kid having grown up with tape trading being the norm but for me the person who will like your music will go and buy it anyway, regardless to whether they have first downloaded the album in order to check it out or not. Obviously, a cassette cannot compare with an MP3 file with regards quality or longevity but I believe that the basic principle is the same: if you like what you listen to you will want to have the original end product – those who like your music will adhere to that rule. Serious Metal fans are loyal as well as collectors.

Dino: Yes, I know, and that is why we release special editions of our albums as well. We brought out a box set of our latest album with much extra stuff, we released a Fear Factory toolbox (note: looking really cool indeed!) with the CD included and also a sculpture version of our previous album “Mechanize”…We always release limited editions of such stuff, we release limited amounts of vinyl and that stuff usually sells right away. Now the actual CD, if somebody wants to go out and buy the actual thing…well, are there any music stores left for them to go and buy them? In most places you find no stores anymore; the stores are fu*king gone and people do not really have time or money to do proper research and so they go and get music for free. These people, however, don’t really know how much that really hurts the artists – not just the record company but also the artist. Some artists are afraid to say that they don’t want people to illegally download their music because they are afraid that people may stop liking them but what we are saying is “look, we knew it was going to happen, we have been talking about man versus machine and how it has become a huge part of our lives through the use of computers, smartphones and with important things that have become obsolete”. This is a time of change, especially as far as the music industry is concerned. Record labels have no way of controlling illegal downloading – there is no way. They may try to find somebody’s IP address, the kind who got it for free from the Internet and threaten to sue him/her but how is that of any help? Century Media did that when the latest Lacuna Coil album leaked on the Internet; they tried to sue some people but I don’t think that anything important came out of it.

I think that what we should aim at educating people rather than trying to punish them. As they say “prevention is better than a cure”, right?

Dino: It’s a scary tactic to threaten people with legal action for illegally downloading music but I think that people will continue to do so anyway. One guy who downloads an album and gives it to his friends to then burn on CDs is enough to do damage. Illegally downloading music has cheapened music! Why should people buy something when they can get it for free? People don’t understand that album sales are how the artist makes his living, how he makes his money. It’s the same like me owning any store, a bottle shop for instance, and all the people who come through the door leave with all my stuff without paying anything. If that thing happens, a store owner will inevitably go out of business, right? Everybody thinks that everything out there is for free and there is nobody to stop them! That’s basically what it is when one illegally downloads an album – that’s what it is; they are stealing from the artist and the record company. With that being said, how do you stop it? You can tell somebody as much as you want “don’t do that” but that doesn’t do sh*t!

The problem, sadly, is not only the fifteen year old who doesn’t know any other way or better for that matter, but also people within the music business. There have been instances of fellow music journalists leaking albums online weeks before their original release.

Dino: Exactly! When “Mechanized” came out, we gave it to all the journalists to review but we also had them all watermarked and that is how we found out who the guy was who leaked it. It was a journalist in Germany who leaked it. Again, the record label didn’t do sh*t; they said “OK, we are not going to give you any more CDs to review” and that was pretty much it. The guy did not get fired, he was not charged with anything…the thing is that you can’t stop it – you cannot stop it! People are just going to continue stealing music simply because they believe that it is for free. They think that they are not going to get caught and that nothing is going to happen and, you know what; they are right! The only thing they don’t know is how much it ruins the bands. Bands are struggling to live; people have no homes, no nothing! Fans don’t know that. They think that because you are in a band you are making a lot of money but that is not how it necessarily works.

The time when record labels spent millions of dollars on Metal bands and MTV was heavily promoting this kind of music are long gone indeed.

Dino: Unfortunately this is very true. There are some artists, of course, who do make a lot of money by playing music – bands like Metallica but they are the exception, not the rule.

Dino, you have been involved in many interesting projects in the past, Divine Heresy being one of them and if the research I did prior to this interview was thorough enough then I believe you are currently in the process of doing new material, right?

Dino: That is true. I’ve got five songs finished and we will see what happens. I am not sure what will happen – right now it’s all about Fear Factory.

Dino, our time is up. I wish you all success with all current and future projects – hope to talk to you again soon.

Dino: Thank you.

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